Questions Answered, Answers Questioned!

There's a new Tyranid player at Discordia and he was checking out my army at the last tournament. He was pretty excited about it (hey, so was I!) He emailed me last week and asked me a bit about it. He said that he didn't want to be cheesy and copy me, but he hoped it was okay if he used some of my ideas. He then asked me about a list he had put together. While I was on the second page of my reply it occurred to me that maybe this would be worth sharing with everybody. It's commentary on what my current list does and why, plus an examination of his army list and some suggestions for it.

Hey Scott, Don't worry about being cheesy, Tyranids are all about taking what works and replicating it on a grand scale! Remember, my list is heavily based on Vsurma's, which took 2nd place in Battle Points in the Scandinavian GT, so it's not like it's copyrighted or anything. You are absolutely welcome to use a variation on my army list, or even a perfect clone of my list if you wish. It's a lot of fun to play, so far, and I'm honored that you'd want to. In turn, I hope you don't mind if I use your question and my answer to it, as an update for Warpstorm. I think this will help other people out there as well, which is what my site is all about. I'll answer your question fairly thoroughly here, but I'll expand on it a bit for Thursday.

Why it works
Let me explain what makes my current list tick, then we can go over your list and suggestions...

My list has a good amount of shooting, particularly anti-troop shooting. Most of this is found in the Devil Fex and the Devil Tyrant. It doesn't have more shootiness than a Tau list, however. What makes the shooting so effective is the Psychic Screams of the Zoanthropes and Tyrant. Without them, I'd just kill about 7-8 Space Marines per turn and that would be it. With the Psychic Screams, I can turn those 7-8 Dead Marines into 2-3 squads running away, maybe even off the board. The final part of my list is The Wall. Monstrous Creatures now block Line Of Sight, meaning I can hide the Genestealers behind them without fear of them getting shot. (Didn't get to do this against the Tau due to mission setup, didn't need to do it against Khorne due to lack of shooting on his part, but it is a vital part of the list.)

My list differs from Vsurma's (the original, to my knowledge) in a couple of key ways.
1) His Tyrants are slightly different (one is a Winged CC beast, the other has a VC/TL Dev combo, since he gets a little paranoid about antivehicle shooting. Given my first battle vs. Armored company, maybe he has a point.)
2) He uses some small Gaunt broods as opposed to Genestealers for his Troops. He basically uses them to tie up some of the enemy, whereas I use my Genestealers to eat anything the MCs can't handle. He also used to put an extra Wound on the Gunfexes, but has since realized that that merely makes it so that everyone tries to shoot the Elite Carnifexes, when he'd really rather lose a Gunfex, so I believe he'll be making that change shortly.

There are several ways in which my army is unusual for Tyranids. As mentioned above, one is that it shoots, another is that it uses Psychology (lowering Leadership and forcing Morale tests) and finally that it uses the MCs as a wall to protect the Genestealers, at least some of the time. If you don't want to do exactly what I do (which, by the way, you are welcome to do, if you so choose) you can change it around a little or a lot so it'll do what you want.

Psych!
If you like the Psychology aspect of it, then use the Choir (the three Zoanthropes with Scream) and use Outnumbering to force the enemy to run away. I remember one guy was talking about trying to use a choir and a couple of Tyrants to keep the enemy from charging him. He wanted to use the rule The Horror, which Tyrants come with and I always forget, to force people to take Leadership tests to charge the Tyrant, but then he'd have 2 Tyrants and 3 Zoanthropes, all with Psychic Scream to give them major penalties on that test, hopefully leaving the enemy unit stranded in front of his advance. I'm not sure how good a tactic that is, but it gives you something to think about with the Psychology effect. You might also use those Psychic Screams to try Pinning enemy units. Both the Barbed Strangler and Spore Mines cause Pinning tests if they cause a casualty. It might be worthwhile to get the Choir up near the enemy lines and use an Alpha Strike of Spore Mines (Biovores or Fast Attack Mine Clusters or both) and multiple Barbed Stranglers (Tyrants, Carnifi, maybe Warriors) to trap the enemy in place.

There goes Tokyo!
If you like the Godzilla-ness of it, you can use all sorts of different combinations of big nasties, including assault Tyrants and Carnifi. I'm not big on assault Carnifi myself, but if you use them, I'd keep them cheap, under 130pts can give you a whopping amount of damage, without costing you the game if it's too slow to catch anything every once in a while. For that matter, making them 114pts or less will still give you most of the capability without losing a Heavy Slot. Further, you can make extra use of all those Monstrous Creatures by lining them up and putting something more fragile behind them, using them to block LOS to whatever you are trying to keep safe. My personal choice would be Genestealers, and maybe some Raveners. You march them up behind the wall of MCs, then you part the wall when you get near to the enemy lines, letting the Genestealers and Ravs move and fleet forward, then engage the enemy.

Nice Shootin' Tex!
If you like the shooting aspect, I think you'll have a harder time pulling it off without the choir of Psychically Screaming Zoanthropes, but there are still some options. For sheer shootiness, you can't beat Zoanthropes and Warp Blast. Biovores can be pretty effective as well. Carnifi with Barbed Stranglers can do pretty good amounts of damage if they hit, as can Tyrants with them. Warriors with Barbed Stranglers and either Devourers or Deathspitters can also do fairly well. Of all the Gaunts, the Termagant and the Toxic Devourer Gaunt (Devourer, Toxin sacs) are the best shooters. The Termagant is cheaper and about as efficient and the S4 can hurt the back armor of most vehicles and endanger skimmers. On the other hand, with only a 12" range, they aren't going to get in a whole lot of shooting, since if they don't kill everything in the area, they'll be Rapid Fired by the enemy very quickly. On the other talon, Toxic Devourer Gaunts cost a lot more and still die easily, but the 18" range is much more useful. With that range, you might be able to get them in cover and keep Synapse AWAY from them so that they can Lurk for a better cover save. In forest, with a 4+ cover save, they can handle a shootout with Space Marines. This might work particularly well with the Pinning concept above, keeping the enemy from doing much besides taking a lot of fire and trying to make armor saves.

List Advice
Okay, so enough about my list and the inner workings thereof, let me see what you've got and what it can do...

Note: His list was more detailed, but to cut to the chase and keep GW legal off of my back, I've pared it down to the bare essentials. (Buy those codexes, folks, printing them out is just piracy. Now, back to your regularly scheduled list goodness...)

130 Tyrant BS4, 2+ Save, WS6, 2xTL Devourer.

130 2xZoanthrope. 2xBlast, 1xSynapse, 1xCatalyst

132 3xRavener. 2xST, Deathspitter each.
132 3xRavener. 2xST, Deathspitter each

160 10xGenestealer
160 10xGenestealer
160 10xGenestealer

1004pts.

Interesting list here, with a mix of shooty and assaulty.

Tyrant BS4, 2+ Save, WS6, 2xTLdev.
-Umm, this guy is pretty good, but why WS6 and not S6? Having S5 shooting is more effective, even with rerolling Failed Wounds. It's also more expensive, but I feel that it's easily worth it with the extra damage that you'll do to light vehicles and such. Just like BS4. Sure, with 12 Twin-linked shots, you're not going to be hurting for hits, but every extra hit is an extra chance to kill something, which makes me feel all warm inside, and gets you closer to winning.

2xZoanthrope. 2xBlast, 1xSynapse, 1xCatalyst
-These are nearly perfect, in my opinion. I have only one question: Uh, why Catalyst? The Zoanthropes are the slowest thing in your list, and your combat stuff is I5 and I6, which isn't exactly being slow. Catalyst is far more useful with Rippers and Carnifi, stuff that might not get to strike if it is killed. Psychic Scream, however, is amazingly useful, even if you don't use my shooty style. I think I'd go with 1 Scream and 1 Synapse in addition to the 2 Blasts. Although you don't need a lot of Synapse in your list, it'll go a long way toward making sure your Zoanthropes and Raveners don't get instakilled by S8+ weapons.

2x3 Ravs 2xST, Deathspitter
-Rending Claws are SO much better than the extra attack. I'm not sold on guns for these guys. They cost more points and a S5 small blast just isn't that impressive. At least with Devs they'd get 6 shots each. Alternately, if you simply fleet them they are almost the fastest thing in the game, which is the way I'd prefer to use them. Sure, you can deepstrike them, but they should be reaching enemy lines on turn 2 anyway, and deepstriking them in the open just means they'll be dead to Bolters next turn. I do see one possible use for them that I hadn't considered before this: Deepstriking death against the back of vehicles. Those S5 Templates give you a shot against the rear armor of tanks. On the other talon, that's not a guarantee that you won't be out of position (or off the board, smart players will put the back armor against the edge of the board to prevent stunts like this) or simply miss/fail to damage, which leaves them out in the open to be shot.

3x10 Genestealers basic
-If you don't hide these guys behind something, they'll evaporate to harsh language. Carapace is a serious plus for them. In my list, I've got 3 MCs to hide behind, and everyone is likely to focus on the MCs anyway, which leaves me feeling better about leaving off Carapace.

General Tactical notes
Note that your army list here has only "teeth" meaning it has lots of stuff to do damage, but not much to take it. Traditional Tyranid lists contain an element that is resilient in some way and will usually be used to either take the brunt of the enemy attack or to swamp the enemy and hold them in place while the "teeth" move in for the kill. Traditional theory would expect you to take heavy casualties and since your casualties are all the expensive kind, you would lose. I don't believe that to be totally the case, but I think you'll have a careful balancing act to do, and I can see it potentially having a tough learning curve.

Your shooting elements (Tyrant, Zoanthropes) are pretty effective and pretty resilient, so turns 2-4 should see them doing a fair amount. Your Ravs and Genestealers are not resilient in the least, but the Ravs should get to the enemy on turn 2 with the Genestealers right behind them in turn 3. I'm not sure, but the trick may be getting the enemy to shoot at your shooty guys until the combat types get stuck in. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but it's a very different way to play Tyranids and it might work.

Our weapons are useless!
Alternately, if you swap out a few Ravs and some Genestealers for more resilient units (Cheap Carnifexes or Termagants, for example) then you'll probably have a little easier time.

Shootier and Godzillier?
One possibility here might look like this:

156 Shooty Tyrant BS4 S6 Sv2+ 2xTL Dev, Psychic Scream
130 2xZoanthrope (2xBlast, Synapse, Scream)
138 3x1 Ravener (Claws and Talons, Spinefist)
113 Carnifex 2xTL Devourer, Enhanced Senses
113 Carnifex 2xTL Devourer, Enhanced Senses
96 6xGenestealer
112 7xGenestealer
128 8xGenestealer
986pts

This gives you the resilience in the form of 3 Monstrous Creatures to hide behind for the Genestealers and Ravs. I split the Ravs into 3 individual broods so that they take damage separately, even though I'd still recommend you have them all attack the same target. I also switched them to RC/ST and gave them Spinefists. With 3 shots, Spines give you a slightly better chance if you are trying to do some emergency can-opening on the back armor of a tank. Not great, mind you, but a little better. Oh, I put S6 on the Tyrant to make it even easier to Wound stuff and knock skimmers out of the sky. The 2 Psychic Screams will be a nice addition that will help you make the occasional squad run away when you shoot them or win combat against them.

This list gives you that resilience I was talking about and adds some extra firepower. It takes your average damage at 18" from about 5 dead Space Marines to about 9 dead Space Marines, so it's a pretty significant jump. I put the Genestealers in even numbered broods as much as possible for Victory points. Both the brood of 6 and the brood of 7 will be able to sustain 4 casualties before going under half strength and giving up Victory Points, while the brood of 8 can take 5 casualties. (A brood of 6 that loses 3 is AT half strength and gives no VPs to the enemy. Likewise, a brood of 7. On the other talon, if the brood of 6 loses 4, they'll be under half and give up 48 VPs. The brood of 7 receiving 4 casualties is also under half but gives up 56 VPs for the same number of kills. Even numbers are good.)

Swarmier
A slightly more traditional list might look something like this:

156 Shooty Tyrant BS4 S6 Sv2+ 2xTL Dev, Psychic Scream
130 2xZoanthrope (2xBlast, Synapse, Scream)
138 3x1 Ravener (Claws and Talons, Spinefist)
120 15xScuttling Termagant
120 15xScuttling Termagant
96 6xGenestealer
112 7xGenestealer
128 8xGenestealer
1000pts

This list takes the resilience in the form of two huge broods of shooty Gaunts. Although they can shoot, and you should use that against skimmers and the like, the real use is to start 6" closer to the enemy and Fleet as fast as possible so you can charge in on turn 2 and tie up the front lines. Hopefully you can leave part of the enemy army open so that your shooty models can shoot some of the enemy, but the nasty parts of the enemy shooting (meaning the stuff that can damage your 2+ saves) will be blocked by the combats. The two broods of Gaunts should hold up until turn 4 or 5, depending on exactly what they hit and how much damage they took on the way in. The Ravs should be there right behind them and the Genestealers should hit about turn 3, so you should be good to go there.

Credit where credit is due
Aside from my partly painted force, all the lovely pictures today are courtesy of Dreachon, of Hivefleet Gargantua. You can find the rest of his Gallery, including a great picture of his Hierophant and a number of Rocketgaunts and Rocket Warriors at Warpshadow.

If you enjoyed this, email me and let me know

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